sexy-ugly

[hafital]

I'm distracting myself from the fact that my cable is still out on the only day I care to have cable (okay, maybe I care on Wednesday, too) I'm posting to LJ instead of writing. hrmph.

~~~

A while ago I watched the film Kissing Jessica Stein (which I enjoyed and found myself identifying with the character of Jessica Stein, although I hope I'm less neurotic...) and weeks later I'm still thinking about a conversation that took place between the two main female characters during their first date:

(the website I found this on didn't attribute the dialogue for some reason. I'm relying on my poor memory to attribute who said what. Jessica is talking about the dating scene and how frustrating it can be, especially if you're... let's call it picky. *g*)



Jessica - So anyway, if you're then lucky enough... to find someone who's the good kind
of smart and the good kind of funny, then generally they're just kind of-- Ugly.

Helen - Ugly.

Jessica - Ugly.

Helen - I'm sorry.

Jessica - Yes, a little. Is that-- That's awful, right?

Helen - No. Ugly doesn't do it for you. That's okay. Me, I'm kind of into ugly.

Jessica - What?

Helen - As long as it's sexy-ugly.

Jessica - Sexy-ugly? I-- Define.

Helen - Well, you can't. It just is, you know? Sexy-ugly.

Jessica - Okay, well, um, could you, um-- could you give me a celebrity...

Helen - who would fall into the category?

Jessica - Um, yeah.

Helen - Hold on a second. I'll get you one. Um--

Jessica - Angelica Huston? Is that kind of the right idea?

Helen - Yeah, I guess. I was gonna say Mick Jagger. He's the big one. Oh, Lyle Lovett, um, James Woods, Harvey Keitel. Very sexy-ugly.

Jessica - Oh.

Helen - Yeah.

And then the scene goes on from there into other things.


What's sexy and what's ugly (and what's beautiful and un-sexy) are, of course, subjective. I don't particularly find Mick Jagger sexy, but I do think Steve Tyler, who is very Mick Jagger-esque, kind of sexy-ugly. I keep returning to this concept, wondering what characters in our various fandoms would fall into this "sexy-ugly".

It also reminded me of tjonesy's post where she tries to puzzle out her attraction to William Adama. He's totally sexy-ugly. (although, *my* attraction to Daddy Adama is more as a father figure, and not really as a sex object, but he IS attractive, and sexy). I often hear people say Felix Gaeta is not attractive, which, honestly, just kind of flabbergasts me, 'cause I think he's rather beautiful. So, Lt. Gaeta? Sexy-ugly? Maybe just to me. :D

Something else, also, is how an actor/actress playing one character in a TV show or film can be unattractive, and then be totally hot and sexy in a different TV show or film playing a different character.

And then there's 'ugly-beautiful', like Ugly Betty. Also, 'scary-sexy', which when I was younger my friends and I would describe as "I am repelled yet strangely attracted". Scary-sexy is someone like Christopher Walken (as the Angel Gabriel, most especially), at least to me, someone you're not sure you really would like be left alone in a room with, but you can't help but be fascinated with and maybe deep down you'd be kind of thrilled to be left alone in a room with.

So, what are other sexy-ugly characters out there? Especially women, 'cause I seem to be blanking on names. I'm open to celebrity suggestions, too. I'm really curious. I'm fascinated by this, and the whole concept of attraction transcending appearance. Also, because, generally, and maybe mostly in American TV?, our lead actors tend to be stunningly gorgeous. I'm curious about what people think of the guys from Life on Mars? Having never seen the show, on just a surface level, I would say those two are not particularly good looking, imo, but from the vids I've seen they seem very vibrant, alive, engaging. Sexy? *g*

These are a few that ding the sexy-ugly bell for me:

Sol Star (Deadwood)
Al Swearengen (Deadwood)
Wild Bill (Deadwood) (Deadwood is fully of sexy-ugly)
Lt. Gaeta (BSG)
William Adama (BSG)
Captain Barbossa (PotC)
Klingons, in general (Star Trek)
Vince (QAF) (he's more adorkable-sexy. He's not ugly at all, really)
Hurley (Lost)
US Marshall Samuel Gerard (The Fugitive)
Colonal Montoya (QoS)
Kronos (HL) (Kronos is really scary-sexy. Or just scary. *g*)
Hugh Fitzcairn (HL) (Arguable, 'cause young Roger Daltrey is gorgeous)
Starsky (Starsky & Hutch)
Cicero (Rome) (kind of. I think I'm just thinking of astolat's story. *g*)
Julius Ceasar (Rome) (very much so)
eta: Nine (Dr. Who) (yes! -- CE is totally totally sexy-ugly. Is Ten sexy? Dave Tennant does nothing for me)
eta: Dr. McCoy (ST:TOS) (I have never, not even a little bit, found Dr. McCoy sexy, but I think many do)
eta: Chekov (ST:TOS) (Again, never ever found Chekov sexy, but others must... don't they?)


Others? What about female characters?

As for celebrities, I found this list of 'sexy-ugly' men, some of which I agree and some of which I strenuously do not agree with. Val Kilmer is not ugly! (er, although maybe Doc Holiday is? He's certainly not healthy and yet still sexy.) Neither is Patrick Stewart. hrmph. Or Daniel Day Lewis (although DDL is fascinating because in one film he can be stunningly beautiful and in another he can be butt-ass ugly).

Wilhem Defoe, otoh, I would say is sexy-ugly, like quintessentially so. As well as Benecio Del Toro (also someone I would rather not be in a room alone with). And Tommy Lee Jones, goes without saying. *g* I am personally fascinated by Alfred Molina in everything the man has ever done -- I'm not sure I would say he's sexy, but he's totally awesome -- he's kind of scary-sexy in Maverick, come to think of it.

Comments

[klia.livejournal.com]

Gene Hunt (LoM) Though I personally think Philip Glenister is, like, OMG, PHWOAR! hot, my theory is that a lot of the LoM fans who pull the "Ick, phooey, I don't see slash in LoM" thing? Can't go there because they don't find Gene attractive *at all*. Hmph. Good, more Gene for me.

Dave Creegan (US Touching Evil) I adore him and his intense craziness, but I've never seen that actor in anything else where he wasn't a total creep (and not the weird, interesting kind of creep, the icky kind).

Alexander Dane (Galaxy Quest) Eee-hee-hee! Totally sexy when snarking or kicking ass, despite his prosthetic head.

Tommy Gavin (Rescue Me) I've been a fan of Denis Leary for ages and ages, when he was still just a stand-up comedian, but never really found him attractive. And then RM came on, and all that changed.

Joe Leaphorn (Wes Studi's character in the Jim Chee-Joe Leaphorn mysteries) If someone had told me 15 years ago that I'd find the scary Indian in Last of the Mohicans and Dances with Wolves hot? I would've thought they were insane. And yet... I do. For me, Wes Studi and EJO are sort of similar in that they give off sexy vibes in spite of their poor, ravaged skin.

Rodney McKay (SGA) Yes, I know he's half of the show's main slash pair, and most of the fans are ga-ga over him, but to me, he's one of those so ugly he's cute people. Let the flaying commence.

Josiah Sanchez (M7) The ep where he's accused of murder? Hot. And another case of so ugly he's cute.

Henry Hart (Big Eden) I'm sorry, because I *adore* Henry, but I've never found Arye Gross even remotely attractive in anything else. *checks IMDb* Nope, I didn't think so.

Frank McPike (WG) Here's one guy *I* don't find at all attractive, but most of the WG fans I've known over the years have been Vinnie/Frank fans, and think he's *squee* adorable. So... (still scratching my head over that one, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Willem Dafoe -- totally! I love him to bits, and have had a major crush on him since Platoon, but he has one of those weird faces that are sometimes ethereally beautiful, and sometimes eeeeyyyyaaaaggghhhh ugly.

Darn it, I *know* there are more, but unfortunately I'm brain dead right now.

Speaking of brain damage, someone actually thinks Val Kilmer is ugly? *shakes head in disbelief*

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Tommy Gavin (Rescue Me) I've been a fan of Denis Leary for ages and ages, when he was still just a stand-up comedian, but never really found him attractive. And then RM came on, and all that changed.

Oh, good call! Totally. I found DL sexy in the film The Ref, myself.

oe Leaphorn (Wes Studi's character in the Jim Chee-Joe Leaphorn mysteries) If someone had told me 15 years ago that I'd find the scary Indian in Last of the Mohicans and Dances with Wolves hot? I would've thought they were insane. And yet... I do. For me, Wes Studi and EJO are sort of similar in that they give off sexy vibes in spite of their poor, ravaged skin.

I'm going to have to check this out. I've never seen it, but Wes Studi is a great example. I would say he's scary-sexy in Last of the Mohicans, myself.

Rodney McKay (SGA) Yes, I know he's half of the show's main slash pair, and most of the fans are ga-ga over him, but to me, he's one of those so ugly he's cute people. Let the flaying commence.

Ahahaha. I was gonna put Rodney McKay on the list, but since I don't watch SGA, I didn't think I should. heeee. He's maybe more adorkable-sexy.

Henry Hart (Big Eden) I'm sorry, because I *adore* Henry, but I've never found Arye Gross even remotely attractive in anything else. *checks IMDb* Nope, I didn't think so.

I have to see this film still, but I would agree about Arye. I've met him in person, though, and he's kinda sexy. It's strange. *g*

Frank McPike (WG)

I almost put Frank on the list. I don't find him attractive, but I don't really think he's *ugly*. Just not typically handsome. He's also not very sexy to me, but then he is with, um, whatshername, the CIA woman... Lilla? Speaking of WG, to me, Sonny Steelgrave is not really good looking -- not ugly, though, but next to Vinnie, he's not really handsome. Except he's, like, hotter then a thousand suns. Something about Ray Sharkey, man, I don't know.

Speaking of brain damage, someone actually thinks Val Kilmer is ugly? *shakes head in disbelief*

I know! I seriously don't get that.

[klia.livejournal.com]

I found DL sexy in the film The Ref, myself.

I *loved* him in The Ref, but I think I was too busy looking at Kevin Spacey's hands the whole time. ;)

I'm going to have to check this out.

There are three movies: Skinwalkers, Coyote Waits, and A Thief of Time; I'm pretty sure they're all on DVD. And Adam Beach plays Jim Chee, so there's double-phwoar.

He's maybe more adorkable-sexy.

He is. A lot of his appeal comes from his smartass attitude, and that doesn't really translate to still pictures.

I have to see this film still

You really do! *hugs DVD*

I've met him in person, though, and he's kinda sexy. It's strange.

There's a lot to be said for charisma. I think that's the link between all the people we've named.

but next to Vinnie, he's not really handsome.

It's hard to compare anyone to Vinnie, with his conventional dark-haired, blue-eyed, chiseled good looks. But while Sonny appeals to me, Frank doesn't. Not even a little. And, let me tell you, we Sonny/Vinnie, Roger/Vinnie fans were a tiny minority back in the day, in a huge sea of squeeing Frank fangirls. *g*

[hafital.livejournal.com]

There are three movies: Skinwalkers, Coyote Waits, and A Thief of Time; I'm pretty sure they're all on DVD. And Adam Beach plays Jim Chee, so there's double-phwoar.

Oh, you know, I think I did see Skinwalkers. I'll have to check the other two out.

It's hard to compare anyone to Vinnie, with his conventional dark-haired, blue-eyed, chiseled good looks. But while Sonny appeals to me, Frank doesn't. Not even a little. And, let me tell you, we Sonny/Vinnie, Roger/Vinnie fans were a tiny minority back in the day, in a huge sea of squeeing Frank fangirls. *g*

Mmmmm, Roger! Man, he IS sexy, and also more unique looking then conventionally handsome, although he's totally gorgeous. Did you, by any chance, ever see his first film Death Bed: The Bed That Eats? It was filmed in 1977 and he has, like, really big hair. LOL. And he looks *really* young. The film is one of those strange, cult, horror flicks that looks like was made with about 10 dollars. Here's an okay picture of him. (http://www.unrated.co.uk/reviews/review_144.htm) Yes, those are skeleton hands. His hands were eaten by the bed. No, really they were. It's that kind of bad. lol.

[klia.livejournal.com]

No, I never saw Death Bed. It's out on DVD, too! HEE! His hair looks like it did in Cruising -- I remember him having a 'fro in that.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

OMG, if you rent Death Bed, just be prepared for really bad voice dubbing, strange yellow evil foam, and some horrific acting. It's hystercial, though. *g*

[klia.livejournal.com]

*gak*

Maybe we can make it a double feature with some other BSO's godawful early work.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Also, WR (credited as Rusty Russ, I believe) doesn't show up until about a quarter of the way in, maybe even half the way in. Just so you know. But then he has big hair and drives a sporty car and looks like he could be on Starsky & Hutch. HEEE

Dude, totally make it a double feature! awesome.

[klia.livejournal.com]

Rusty Russ?

*dies*

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

Gaeta? In what way is he ugly? I mean, I can see how he's not necessarily everyone's type, but (hey, maybe I'm just biased) can't really see how he'd be described as ugly.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Hey, it's not me. I think he's beautiful. Maybe I should take him off the list. :D

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

You should have heard me shriek when you put Vince Tyler on that list. No, no, no! Vince is just plain sexy! No ugly! *hides him behind her back*

I can't believe anyone on earth thinks Gaeta is ugly. Something is obviously wrong with them. *g* (btw, did you ever watch the Jeremiah episode with that actor in it? I should slash him with Jeremiah. That would be fun. :)

[hafital.livejournal.com]

You should have heard me shriek when you put Vince Tyler on that list. No, no, no! Vince is just plain sexy! No ugly! *hides him behind her back*

Sorry! Sorry sorry. *g* He's not ugly. No no. And you know I love him? LOL. Actually I absolutely adore him. *pets you* (I *knew* you would say that. hee. I think Vince thinks he's not attractive, btw. )

I can't believe anyone on earth thinks Gaeta is ugly. Something is obviously wrong with them. *g* (btw, did you ever watch the Jeremiah episode with that actor in it? I should slash him with Jeremiah. That would be fun. :)

You did mention this before! And, really, this, more then anything else so far, might get me to finish watching all of Jeremiah. *g*

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

And, really, this, more then anything else so far, might get me to finish watching all of Jeremiah.

You don't have to watch it all -- he's just in the one episode. And it happens to be one of my very favorites -- "Journeys End in Lovers Meeting." :) You don't even really have to watch any other eps to enjoy it.

[klia.livejournal.com]

You think CK was cute in QaF? You should've seen him in Silent Witness last week! So, so hot, I almost didn't recognize him! *g*

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Oh, man. What is Silent Witness? Now I obviously need to find out.

[klia.livejournal.com]

It's a forensic show airing on BBC America; CK played a detective.

[tjonesy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Sexy Ugly really covers it. I forgot about that conversation in Kissing Jessica Stein, thanks for reminding me.

EJO, very sexy ugly.

Ian McShane? He's fucking hot! There is nothing ugly about that man!

Gaeta? WTF? He's so pretty it almost hurts.

Alfred Monlina, definitely. I had the opportunity to work with him and he's also got that loopy, British sense of humor. Very pythonesque. So he gets to be Sexy Funny Ugly. Even better than Sexy Ugly.

Also, Ricky Gervaise gets to be in the Sexy Funny Ugly category. And Terry Jones! Actually, better include all the Pythons in the Sexy Funny Ugly category.

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

Alfred Molina, definitely. I had the opportunity to work with him and he's also got that loopy, British sense of humor. Very pythonesque. So he gets to be Sexy Funny Ugly. Even better than Sexy Ugly.

Oh, god, seriously? Did you ever tell me this? He's still my favorite actor on the planet, bar none. Has been for years.

Terry Jones is totally in the sexyfunnyugly category. And Eddie Izzard! Same.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Ian McShane? He's fucking hot! There is nothing ugly about that man!

heeee.

Gaeta? WTF? He's so pretty it almost hurts.

I swear people have told me he's unattractive! And I die a little inside. *g*

Alfred Monlina, definitely. I had the opportunity to work with him and he's also got that loopy, British sense of humor. Very pythonesque. So he gets to be Sexy Funny Ugly. Even better than Sexy Ugly.

Oh! Sexy-Funny-Ugly! Excellent. YESSSSS.

Also, Ricky Gervaise gets to be in the Sexy Funny Ugly category. And Terry Jones! Actually, better include all the Pythons in the Sexy Funny Ugly category.

Good call on Ricky Gervaise. Cant' believe I forgot him. :D And I thought about the Monty Python guys -- my girlfriends and I had crushes on all of them. Hmmm, yes, Sexy-Funny-Ugly!

[tjonesy.livejournal.com]

OMG! I just remembered my number one sexy-ugly guy: Klaus Kinski!

How could I have forgotten this weird crush of mine? I had to defend it often enough in college and the word sexy-ugly hadn't been invented yet. Wish it had, it would have saved me a lot of grief.

I second killabeez on Eddie Izzard. Loves!

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

Willem Dafoe & John Glover are both sexy-ugly, and I agree with the movie about Anjelica! Also, Helen Mirren -- she's actually closer to pretty now than she was even 10 years ago, like she's grown into her face finally, but I still think of her as flat-out plain, like Detective Inspector Tennyson.

It's harder to find sexy-ugly female characters or actors, I think, because ugly-interesting male actors can get work aplenty, but it's harder for ugly-interesting female actors.

Susannah Harker can be ugly as hell or very good-looking, which is kind of a problem when she's cast in a role that requires good-looking (Jane in Pride & Prejudice) but ends up looking like a horse. Compare & contrast to how she looks in Ultraviolet, with a chin-length bob -- very unusual-sexy, more than ugly-sexy, I think.

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

I asked nlanza about sexy-ugly or unusual/interesting-sexy female actors on the way to work today. He said Christina Ricci, and also offered that although Helena Bonham Carter is conventionally lovely, she often plays characters (like Marla in Fight Club) who are ugly-sexy or really, not very pretty at all (like Charlie's mother in Charlie & the Chocolate Factory, who looks careworn and faded through most of the film, and only pretty in the very last scene).

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Very interesting! Christina Ricci is unusual looking, but I think she's beautiful.

I'm remembering how in older novels and books there's always a distinction between a "handsome" woman and a "beautiful" woman. Jo March = Handsome. I'm trying to think of others...

[tjonesy.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll give you sexy-ugly women:

Sarah Jessica Parker. She wins the medal in this competition. Truly sexy-ugly in every sense of the word.

Lilli Taylor. So sexy-ugly it's unreal.

Sandra Bernhard (I've heard people find her attractive, at least. I personally find her completely gross)

Madonna is kinda sexy ugly. If you look at her face, she's not conventionally pretty, but she's definitely sexy.

How about that Spanish actress from Tie Me Up Tie Me Down. You know, the one who looks like a Picasso painting.

The chic who plays Starbuck on BSG is sexy ugly, IMHO. My husband just thinks she's fugly.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Sarah Jessica Parker.

Hm, yes. I was just looking at her magazine ad for her new perfume, the other day, where I swear she looks cross-eyed. She's better in her films, though.

Lilli Taylor. So sexy-ugly it's unreal

Ah, now Lilli Taylor I do find sexy. *nod*

Sandra Bernhard (I've heard people find her attractive, at least. I personally find her completely gross)

Oh, good one! definitely, although she totally frightens me!

The chic who plays Starbuck on BSG is sexy ugly, IMHO. My husband just thinks she's fugly.

Get out! Really? LOL. Starbuck is totally hot. Although I found her sexier in the previous seasons. hm.

[hafital.livejournal.com]

nd I agree with the movie about Anjelica! Also, Helen Mirren -- she's actually closer to pretty now than she was even 10 years ago, like she's grown into her face finally, but I still think of her as flat-out plain, like Detective Inspector Tennyson.

Interesting! I never would put Helen Mirren on a sexy-ugly list, but I think you're right about Detective Inspector Tennyson. hm.

Susannah Harker can be ugly as hell or very good-looking, which is kind of a problem when she's cast in a role that requires good-looking (Jane in Pride & Prejudice) but ends up looking like a horse. Compare & contrast to how she looks in Ultraviolet, with a chin-length bob -- very unusual-sexy, more than ugly-sexy, I think.

Oh! That's totally an incentive to watch Ultraviolet! I did wonder, when I first watched P&P, about how they dressed SH, but then I started to think Jane was absolutely lovely. I also wondered about Wickham, who's supposed to be more handsome then Darcy. In the theatrical film, they cast a very pretty Wickham, but he kind of pales in comparison to Darcy played by MM.

[carenejeans.livejournal.com]

Tommy Lee Jones!!! 8-)

Heh. I seem to developed a penchant for ugly-sexy men. Note the latter pics in my "timeline" of celebrity crushes here (http://carenejeans.livejournal.com/85801.html). Or my icon. 8-)

I also tend to like formerly beautiful actors kinda gone to seed, like Nick Nolte or James Gammon (well, have you SEEN pictures of James Gammon as a sprout? God. He didn't stay pretty for long, though.)

Christopher Walken is absolutely scary-sexy! Yes! Elsa Lanchester was good at that too, in her day.

There's also, possibly, "dirty-sexy": Captain Jack Sparrow, Clint Eastwood in things like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, George Clooney in O Brother Where Art Thou, and everyone in Deadwood 8-).

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Heh. I seem to developed a penchant for ugly-sexy men. Note the latter pics in my "timeline" of celebrity crushes here. Or my icon. 8-)

heee. You end it with Duncan/Methos, which was like, back to the pretty. lol.

Christopher Walken is absolutely scary-sexy! Yes! Elsa Lanchester was good at that too, in her day.


Oh, I don't know Elsa Lanchester... I'll have to check that out.

There's also, possibly, "dirty-sexy": Captain Jack Sparrow, Clint Eastwood in things like The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, George Clooney in O Brother Where Art Thou, and everyone in Deadwood 8-).

heeee. dirty-sexy. :D :D That could be read in more then one way...

[klia.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know Elsa Lanchester... I'll have to check that out.

Oh, you know her -- as the Bride of Frankenstein! She was amazing. Coincidentally, she was married to Charles Laughton, and I came thisclose to putting him on my list.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Hm.

This is all interesting and good thinky-fodder, but I'm finding a conflation in some of these choices that upsets me.

Ugly ≠ fat.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder yadda yadda, but in my opinion, Hurley on Lost, Ricky Gervais, Gene Hunt on Life on Mars (not that klia thinks so [or me]), and others are put into the "ugly" category solely because they are overweight. And that pisses me off.

For most of these characters or actors, as far as I can tell, "sexyugly" just translates to "I don't find this person physically attractive but the actor or character really has great charisma that draws me to them in ways I wouldn't have expected just from looking at them."

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder yadda yadda, but in my opinion, Hurley on Lost, Ricky Gervais, Gene Hunt on Life on Mars (not that klia thinks so [or me]), and others are put into the "ugly" category solely because they are overweight. And that pisses me off.

Hm, well, of those three I would only say Hurley on Lost is actually fat. I don't know Gene Hunt, so I can't speak for that (although from pictures he just seems tall. maybe just next to the other guy he's considered fat?), but Ricky Gervais? Is not fat. Maybe he's not slim, but he's not fat. Ricky Gervais is absolutely sexy-ugly, though. Is this something you feel is a general societal response? Which, maybe is the case -- certainly in Hollywood weight tends to be an issue.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but weight is only one element of a person's outward appearance. I could easily say that Big Noses seems to automatically put someone in the sexy-ugly category. I personally find too skinny more unattractive than too fat.

For most of these characters or actors, as far as I can tell, "sexyugly" just translates to "I don't find this person physically attractive but the actor or character really has great charisma that draws me to them in ways I wouldn't have expected just from looking at them."

Yeah. That pretty much sums it up, although it's more then just being drawn to, in some cases.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I think I knee-jerk react to the word "ugly". I don't like it, and I don't think it applies 99% of the time it's used. It gets my back up, and it *especially* gets my back up when people say something like "she's ugly" when what they mean is "she's not a size 6". And yes, Hollywood is insane about weight and that's part of it, but it's... ngh. There's way too much here for me right now and I can feel myself wanting to rant, which I won't do all over your lj.

I should have said "ugly" ≠ "anyone who doesn't fit the dysmorphic body ideal fed to us by the media". How's that? :-D

[hafital.livejournal.com]

Oh, I get knee-jerk reaction! I totally understand. Ugly is an ugly word. I rather like "sexy-ugly", though.

For me, true ugly lies in actions, not in appearances.

[klia.livejournal.com]

To clarify, I DO NOT think Gene is ugly (physically or otherwise) *or* fat (he only looks bigger because of his posture/stance). I actually put him at the top of my list because it irks me how often people perceive him that way.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I DO NOT think Gene is ugly...*or* fat

:-D I know you don't! That's why I said "not that klia thinks so (or me)". I'm pretty sure you and I are 100% in tune when it comes to Gene.

[klia.livejournal.com]

I hadn't addressed his alleged fatness, and wanted to clarify. But yes, indeed, we're in tune. :D