The Valkyrie
Jul. 22nd, 2003 12:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hafitalI swear sometimes I'm as dense as Duncan. :-D
So I had a minor revelation regarding The Valkyrie last night. Previously, I never entirely understood what Methos was trying to do in this episode. I mean, I know it was ambiguous, but was he saying kill Ingrid or was he saying not to kill her? And that last scene (one of my favorites!) I've watched it like a gazillion times and I never quite understood. Oh, I get all the 'shades of gray' stuff, and the 'who judges who' stuff, but I never quite got what Methos was saying by it all. How did he feel? And what did he mean by pushing at Mac in the bar scene with Joe? And the ending, too, which always seems to be contrary, to his earlier remarks? The earlier scenes make him look a little callous or insensitive but the ending contradicts that. But I see finally that he was saying neither and both.
In my opinion, Methos pretty much knew were Duncan was headed in regards to Ingrid from the beginning of the episode. And that's why he implied that Duncan knew how to stop her, and not that killing her was a good thing, or the right thing, or the wrong thing, to do. Or the easiest, although that seemed to be implied a little bit. I also realized that he wasn't saying not to kill her, either. Just that both choices have consequences.
That's another thing. I never get the sense that Methos feels or thinks Duncan should be anything other than who he is, even if that includes having an over inflated sense of right and wrong and being "judgmental" or being a boy scout, or whatever. He may grumble about it once or twice *g* or find it amusing, but aside from stripping away any delusions Duncan may have about himself or his friends and whatever situation they find themselves in, he doesn't actually say Duncan should change. In the case of The Valkyrie, Methos is a bit blunt and opaque, but I like that he doesn't use kid gloves when dealing out ugly bits of truth, particularly with Duncan. :) This also explains a lot about why he never told Duncan about the Horseman, although that was more obvious to me.
whew! Where did all that come from? Haven't a clue. And it probably makes no sense whatsoever. heh.
So I had a minor revelation regarding The Valkyrie last night. Previously, I never entirely understood what Methos was trying to do in this episode. I mean, I know it was ambiguous, but was he saying kill Ingrid or was he saying not to kill her? And that last scene (one of my favorites!) I've watched it like a gazillion times and I never quite understood. Oh, I get all the 'shades of gray' stuff, and the 'who judges who' stuff, but I never quite got what Methos was saying by it all. How did he feel? And what did he mean by pushing at Mac in the bar scene with Joe? And the ending, too, which always seems to be contrary, to his earlier remarks? The earlier scenes make him look a little callous or insensitive but the ending contradicts that. But I see finally that he was saying neither and both.
In my opinion, Methos pretty much knew were Duncan was headed in regards to Ingrid from the beginning of the episode. And that's why he implied that Duncan knew how to stop her, and not that killing her was a good thing, or the right thing, or the wrong thing, to do. Or the easiest, although that seemed to be implied a little bit. I also realized that he wasn't saying not to kill her, either. Just that both choices have consequences.
That's another thing. I never get the sense that Methos feels or thinks Duncan should be anything other than who he is, even if that includes having an over inflated sense of right and wrong and being "judgmental" or being a boy scout, or whatever. He may grumble about it once or twice *g* or find it amusing, but aside from stripping away any delusions Duncan may have about himself or his friends and whatever situation they find themselves in, he doesn't actually say Duncan should change. In the case of The Valkyrie, Methos is a bit blunt and opaque, but I like that he doesn't use kid gloves when dealing out ugly bits of truth, particularly with Duncan. :) This also explains a lot about why he never told Duncan about the Horseman, although that was more obvious to me.
whew! Where did all that come from? Haven't a clue. And it probably makes no sense whatsoever. heh.
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no subject
Date: 2003-07-22 12:02 pm (UTC)I think that Methos is one of those people who feels one should know oneself. He has to live an illusory life, pretending to be mortal, but he has always struck me as a man devoted to knowing himself - the journals strike me that way, mostly: this is a record of myself, that I may never forget what I am and what I have been. I think it's a form of identity-making nearly as rigid as Duncan's adherence to his own name.
And I think that most Immortals who live a long time have to do something like that, to keep track of themselves in the tides of time - and I think Methos tries to teach it to Duncan because he's rather fond of the boy. :)
no subject
Date: 2003-07-22 07:06 pm (UTC)Wow, that's a nifty observation!
And I think that most Immortals who live a long time have to do something like that, to keep track of themselves in the tides of time - and I think Methos tries to teach it to Duncan because he's rather fond of the boy. :)
I agree that Methos does teach Duncan (even if he would deny it *g*) but that he teaches more by always being there or by example or something even more vague. It's certainly less direct then say Darius. For example in The Valkyrie I don't think Methos "teaches" Duncan anything, but Duncan does learn something and not really because of anything Methos did or said, but also not despite it, either.
Hm, clever man, that Methos. *g*
no subject
Date: 2003-07-23 08:23 am (UTC)There's a lot of identity-making that I see in Methos: "I wouldn't stay in any hotel Adam Pierson could afford." "Adam" isn't real, and Methos hasn't lost himself in that role - for example, I doubt any Watchers ever saw that apartment, filled with Methos' journals.
Connor MacLeod always read to me as doing the same thing, in a way - look at his antique shop, nice and public and above-ground...but then there's the back room, and there's his dangerous hostility towards the police in the first film.
It's something I see in a lot of the older Immortals - they find some form of consistency and they stay with it, keeping themselves *together* in an ever-changing world. The Horsemen did it in different ways, but they all seemed to have *done* it; Cassandra did it; Darius did it.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-22 12:28 pm (UTC)The most OOC Highlander fic I've ever read that wasn't just plain badfic featured Methos telling Duncan he had to change his name to be with him, and Duncan agreeing. I don't believe Duncan could ever change his name, as as you said, I don't think Methos would want him to either.
no subject
Date: 2003-07-22 12:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-07-22 07:26 pm (UTC)Oh, I do hope you get to see it soon! One of the best episodes, imo.
The most OOC Highlander fic I've ever read that wasn't just plain badfic featured Methos telling Duncan he had to change his name to be with him, and Duncan agreeing. I don't believe Duncan could ever change his name, as as you said, I don't think Methos would want him to either.
I don't know. I tend to think he never would, too, but that would imply that Duncan couldn't/or can't change, and I don't believe that, either. Duncan may change his name eventually, but I do think it would be only when he was good and ready to. And what 'good and ready' might be is anyone's guess.
That sounds like a real gem. ;)
I did read a story where by the end of it Duncan decided to change his name which more or less worked for me. A gen story, by Janeen called...um... Changed Utterly (http://users.erols.com/darkpanther/HL%20Stories/changed.htm). It was sad and a little bittersweet, but a good read. It's part of a large body of works that I never set time apart to read, shame on me.